Wednesday, September 14, 2022

Why buying the most expensive motherboard for a given platform makes you an idiot

I don't have a problem with expensive hardware. If I could afford it I'd buy a 3090 Ti. I do have a problem with people paying more for a worse product. A 3090Ti is just better than a 3090. It's faster and the build quality is much better. The same is not true with motherboards.

The issue is that most of the time the most expensive board for a given platform simply isn't the best.

 

For example the Z690 Godlike which at the time of writing is 1200USD. 

When it comes to memory performance it's just worse than the 470USD Z690 Unify-X because a daisy chain topology simply can't do the speeds that a 1 dimm per channel topology can. So if you care about having the absolutely best CPU+RAM performance the Godlike doesn't have it.

In terms of features the Z690 Godlike uses the exact same Marvell AQC113C 10G lan controller found on the 470USD Gigabyte Z690 Aorus master.

The Z690 Godlike uses the exact same 105A power stages that the Z690 Unify-X uses.

In terms of Vcore regulation the Z690 Dark/Apex/Tachyon should either match or beat the godlike as they use similar or better output filtering components.

The Godlike has an 8 layer PCB. Same as the Z690 Unify-X or Apex. It's actually less layers than the Z690 Tachyon and Dark. This in and of itself doesn't really do anything to performance but it's worth pointing out that you aren't really getting more PCB for your 1200USD compared to a 400-850USD boards.

Now it would be tempting to think that at 1200USD the Godlike would at least get better BIOS support. However in practice motherboard manufacturers put most of the BIOS development effort into the popular boards not the expensive ones. After all a BIOS bug affecting 10 000+ users is far more important than one that affects 1 000 users.

 

You may think that the most expensive board would at least get more hardware validation. This also isn't true. If you want the most validated hardware you should just not buy motherboards at launch. For example Gigabyte massively upgraded the memory topology between the the X570 Aorus Xtreme rev1.0 and rev1.1. You'd think a 700USD board would launch with the memory topology dialed in but that's just not true. The original version of the Maximus Z690 Apex has a hardware flaw that makes it impossible for many early production boards to boot speeds higher than DDR5-6400.


If buying the most expensive motherboard meant that you automatically get the best board I wouldn't consider you an idiot. In practice however the price of a motherboard past a certain point has no impact on how good it is and so buying the most expensive one in hopes of getting the best one makes you an idiot.

Wednesday, March 2, 2022

12th gen intel memory overclocking voltages

This post is made possible by my Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/buildzoid
and Teespring store: https://actually-hardcore-overclocking.creator-spring.com/


CPU voltages

VCCIN
    Generated by the motherboard
    Used by the IVR to produces other votlages on the CPU like VCCSA and CPU VDDQ
    1.8V by spec
    Doesn't really affect anything at ambient. 

VCCSA
    Internal to the CPU and created by the IVR from VCCIN
    Powers the CPU's system agent
    Raising it can help stabilize higher IMC clocks
    I wouldn't recommend going over 1.45V for long term use.
    1.35V is usually more than enough for everything.

CPU VDDQ / VDDQTX
    Internal to the CPU and created by the IVR from VCCIN
    Powers the CPU's memory controller. Has nothing to do with the RAM sticks.
    Raising it can help stabilize higher IMC clocks
   
I wouldn't recommend going over 1.45V for long term use. (I might be overly cautious about this)
    1.35V is usually more than enough for everything.

DDR4 Specific Voltages

VDDR / memory voltage
    Generated by the motherboard
    Powers the RAM and CPU's IMC's PHYs
    Raising it can help stabilize higher memory clocks/lower memory timings
    1.2V by spec
    I wouldn't recommend going over 1.6V for long term use.
    Too much VDDR can cause stability issues by making the RAM too hot especially when above 1.45V

VTTDDR
    Generated from VDDR by the motherboard
    Used to terminate signals for the memory
    Lowering it can help stabilize overclocks on some memory ICs
    VDDR÷2 by spec

VPP

    Generated by the motherboard
    Powers the wordline of the memory chips
    Doesn't tend to affect overclocking in any way
    2.5V by spec
    Must ALWAYS be higher than VDDR

DDR5 Specific Voltages 

RAM  VDDQ
    Generated by memory stick's PMIC
    Powers the IO of the memory chips ("RAM talks to CPU using this voltage")
    Affects memory clocks and timings
    More is generally better
    1.1V by spec
    I wouldn't go over 1.6V for long term use. Should be kept within 100mv of RAM VDD
    DDR5 is temperature sensitive and runs hotter than DDR4


RAM VDD
    Generated by memory stick's PMIC
    Powers the rest of the memory chip
    Affects memory clocks and timings
    More is generally better
    1.1V by spec
    I wouldn't go over 1.6V for long term use. Should be kept within 100mv of RAM VDDQ
    DDR5 is temperature sensitive and runs hotter than DDR4

VDD2
    Generated by motherboard
    Powers the CPU's IMC's PHY when using DDR5
("CPU talks to RAM using this voltage")
    Affects memory clocks and timings
    Has motherboard specific sweet spots that can be rather low on some boards

    1.1V by spec
    I wouldn't recommend going over 1.6V for long term use.   
    On many boards less than 1.45V works best.

VPP
   
Generated by memory stick's PMIC
    Powers the wordline of the memory chips
    Doesn't tend to affect overclocking in any way
    1.8V by spec

   
Must ALWAYS be higher than VDDQ/VDD

Note:
These voltage descriptions are based on my understanding of the DDR4/5 and intel CPU documentation available to me and my expiriences with overclocking DDR4 and DDR5 on 12th gen CPUs. There might be mistakes.

 

Saturday, February 5, 2022

LGA1700 non-K overclocking

Non-K OC on LGA1700 requires an external clockgen and a special BIOS that uses the external clock gen to bypass the CPU's internal one. Without the external clockgen and non-K OC BIOS non-K CPUs are limited to BCLKs of less than 103MHz. Typically around 102.5MHz 

AFAIK ASUS came up with this workaround for intel's BCLK restrictions on non-K CPUs.

I expect intel to completely block this workaround on 700 series boards and 13th gen CPUs too. Just like they did with 200+ chipsets and 7000+ CPUs on LGA1151 and LGA1200.

ASUS non-K OC capable motherboards
Z690 Formula (BIOS on HWbot)
Z690 Extreme (BIOS on HWbot)
Z690 Apex (BIOS on HWbot)
Z690 Hero (BIOS on HWbot)
B660-F (BIOS on HWbot)
B660-G (BIOS on HWbot)

MSI boards that can support non-K OC // waiting for BIOS
Z690 Godlike
Z690 Ace
Z690i Unify (BIOS on HWbot)
Z690 Unify X (BIOS on HWbot)
Z690 Unify
No plans for further support

Gigabyte boards that can support non-K OC // waiting for BIOS
Z690 Tachyon (BIOS on HWbot)
Z690 Xtreme
Could add more Z690 ATX boards with hardware revision

Asrock
Z690 Aqua OC (BIOS on HWbot)
IDK about any other Asrock boards

HWbot forum thread with non-K OC BIOSs: https://community.hwbot.org/topic/210553-intel-12th-gen-non-k-oc-capable-boards-bios-versions/